I look forward to reading your summaries and responses to Gerald Graff and Cathy Birkenstein's They Say, I Say. Students in my first-year composition (English 106) classes started using with the templates last week, with mixed responses to the method (agree/disagree/both). On Friday, students engaged in some provocative discussions of the advantages and disadvantages of using templates as a method of learning argumentative writing.
On Wednesday, we'll see what you have to say about They Say, I Say. Any connection between this model of argument and Bruffee's "conversation of mankind"? What does each method suggest about how people learn to write and how writing should be taught?
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15 comments:
Safia said, "The template given helped me to explain what I read and what 'they said' which helped me to explain what I wanted to say. These templates can especially be useful when writing a paper, or even when summarizing a paragraph like this one."
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Susan said, "All in all, I think Graff and Birkenstein’s templates can provide a starting point especially for many new writers, but more emphasis should be given to creating an effective style of one's own."
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Brett said, "I would argue that although I may not be an expert in writing, I know enough to know that it takes more to be a good writer than the right ideas, templates, and organization."
I really like the point Stephen made when he said that it seemed as if the author was daring the reader to find a better template, than the one provided. I agree, because after reading pages and pages worth of how templates are beneficial tools to create a good paper, you as the reader, find yourself questioning if they are right but agreeing with them at the same time. However, what I found interesting is that Stephen agreed with the writers that templates are good..yet didn't follow the one provided.
I really liked the point Susan made earlier when she said that templates can provide a starting point in which a student can begin writing his or her paper. I agree because using the template in our exercise helped me begin writing and ideas were flowing in my head.
I agree with Susan, in that these templates provide a good starting point for new writers. However, I don't think that they, in any way, stifle a students creativity. It's just a starting point...basic guidelines...not the basis for one's entire work. A writer has plenty of room to develop and express his or her personal style.
I like what Brett said about knowing that it takes more than the right ideas, templates and organization to be a good writer. Still, I wonder what "more" would be. How does someone really become an expert in writing?
I agree with Brett's point that it takes more than organization and structure to be a good writer. Still, I think that Graff and Birkenstein are trying to provide new or inexperienced writers with a tool that will help them stay on track with their writing in order to create a cohesive argument. Their templates remind students that they need to address the opposition's argument and help them flesh out their own opinion. These are two important elements that students often forget to include or don't know how to take from theory and apply in their own writing. Graff and Birkenstein don't suggest that students use these templates forever, but instead as a stepping stone to help them connect what they have learned about writing in theory to their writing in practice.
I agree with Susan in saying that the templates are a good starting point for young writers. I think people, especially teachers, would get bored with the same system of writing everytime. It is important to develop the ability of getting your thoughts down in a coherent manner but also maintaining one's creativity.
I really liked the point Safia made about these templates providing structure and therefore allowing a thought to be processed and therefore written more effectively. I agree with this because I do not think these templates were designed to make writers feel helpless and uncreative: I think they were designed just to be a helpful tool in the writing process, and does not mean they have to be followed at all times.
I really liked the point Crystal made when she said, “I am not use to structuring my thoughts in this manner.” I agree with this statement because it is hard when you have a really good idea but don’t know how to formulate it. I disagree with Brett when he says “For instance, some writers may have interesting things to say and may be able to organize their thoughts well, but they do not have an interesting way of presenting their final work.” Yet I would argue that the templates do exactly that, give a student a way of making his interesting points in an easy to read and thus interesting way. My point is this: Templates are a good way to get a writer started on being able to better express themselves in life and essay form. In other words, what I’m trying to get at here is these templates are a god starting point, a good way to get the basics down and then flourish from there.
I really liked the point that Jake makes when summing up the author's main idea, how templates can develop a writing style that is successful. I agree because Jake because I think that the author's are trying to help writers become more successful.
I really liked the point Safia said about templates allowing thoughts to be better processed, and as a result better written. I agree because I do not think these templates were designed to make writers feel helpless and uncreative: I think they were designed to give writers a helpful starting point that does not have to necessarily be followed all the time.
I really liked the point Susuan made earlier when she said that more emphasis should be given to creating an effective style of one's one. I agree becuase it is very important for a writer to be original and create their own style in order for their writing to be good. I take your point, Brett, that it takes more to be a good writer than the right ideas, templates, and organization. Still these templates can be a great starting point and it can help one to develop into a good writer.
I wasn't 100% sure that I agreed with the use of templates after reading the articles from Graff and Birkenstein. The author of the blog "And today's lesson is" came up with an argument that really made me think about the topic in a new way.
If the process of writing can be broken down into a simple template that anyone can understand, why not review and use this model until the student becomes a more proficient writer? Those of us who have never had trouble with the written word may not well understand the feeling of a student who sits at a desk for hours unable to compose a single word until well into the night when sheer exhaustion leads said student to pound out something not always recognizable as academic writing.
I like this example because it helps me get a connection with a young reader that might be struggling. This personal example of how I template might help a student was far more powerful than the formal discourse of Graff and Birkenstein.
I agree with Susan's argument that Graff and Birkenstein's templates can provide a good starting point for new writers. Even as an English major my senior year of college, I still struggle when beginning new pieces of writing.
I also agree with Brett's statement that it takes more to be a good writer than just ideas, templates, and organizations. These, of course, are the building blocks to becoming a good writer. I feel that Graff and Birkenstein's templates can definitely help students to create strong foundations. Once this is done, students can then work on developing effective individual styles.
I noticed that Graff and Birkenstein have similar goals as Bruffee. These authors all believe that effective writing is conversational. Graff and Birkenstein's "they say, I say" template is very similar to the type of actual conversations that Bruffee would like to see between peers.
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